AI Church Toolkit

>> Mercedes: Foreign.

Welcome to episode six of the AI

Church Toolkit podcast. This is the

podcast where we empower church leaders with tools for

faithful ministry in the digital age. I'm

Mercedes.

>> Peter: And I'm Peter. Together we explore how faith and

technology intersect, guided by the

baptismal covenant.

>> Mercedes: And today we'll be taking a slightly different

approach as we have a, uh,

discussion about how we've managed the changes

around AI, uh, within our

congregations. So we'll have

some open question and answer and

exploring processes about each of our

experiences within our churches and in our

communities.

>> Peter: And Mercedes, you led a very intentional process with

your own congregation, which I admire deeply. And

so we're really going to focus a lot on that

experience of yours today. Are you ready

to dive in?

>> Mercedes: Let's go.

>> Peter: All right, so, uh, why don't you start by talking us, uh,

through an overview of the change process that

you experienced with your congregation and then I'll

have some questions for you and we can discuss, uh,

it further in a bit.

>> Mercedes: Okay. So I'm going to kind of start with,

uh, a high level overview as I have explored

AI in general. And I do think it's probably helpful

at this point to say that, uh, because of my previous

career in technology, that

implementing systems,

um, software, uh, business

processes, business process improvement is kind

of, uh, part of my

core skill set. And

so I was very intentional about

approaching this with my church. You

know, when all the news hype came out in

2023, uh, I did some initial experimenting

with AI on my own. Uh, but that

was mostly just playing around

with, uh, some of the features. I

avoided the sermon writing thing because there was so

much chatter about that. But I

did attend the first Try Tank webinar,

uh, on the use of AI to generate

ideas for your church around

context. And, uh, I did

appreciate that, uh, Father Lorenzo

included panelists from BTS that discussed the potential

use in sermons. And at that time,

you know, the focus was, well, to get away from the

blank page, uh, for brainstorming, for

outlining ideas. Um, but when I

talk to my own peers, I

heard a lot of pushback. There was Discomfort around using

AI in

2024. So last summer, right before

we met, I did bring it up with the

Vestry, uh, as I

was planning on attending the AI summit,

ah, which was in August last year.

And so I also mentioned it in the

announcement at that time, since I'd be traveling and out of the

office, uh, that we would. I was just, I was

going to the summit to learn more about AI.

And then after the Summit, my use

increased significantly. I learned quite a bit there.

It's like, oh, oh, well, this is cool.

And so I began, uh,

to revisit it at Vestry.

I, uh, mention it at announcements.

Probably about once a month. We have

continued discussion, uh, at Vestry with very

specific examples. I've also held an

open forum between the services

for discussion of concerns and

feedback. And that worked really well

because a professor from our local college who is on

their AI Ethics committee, uh,

is a member of the church and also came and

played devil's, uh, advocate.

And then, uh, now

we're, uh, actually introducing an

AI Responsible use

policy, uh, with, uh, to

start to put what we're thinking down on paper

to manage the expectations. And I should

mention that after the summit, once I

started exploring it for sermon

use, I, uh, was transparent, uh,

in my announcements to say that, uh, at

times I was using AI for that, uh, so that

folks would be able and invited

as much conversation or

feedback, uh, as people wanted to provide.

So we are right there at that edge. I'm

thinking at the next Vestry meeting, we'll probably finalize

the responsible use policy.

>> Peter: Great. Okay. That's. That's exciting.

Um, it's

funny. Policies, uh, can be a

bit of a drag. But also they're so helpful if you just have

clarity and transparency about,

uh, what the policy is and everybody knows and we're all

on the same page.

So do you want to go back and talk a bit more about

how you introduced the idea of using AI to

your parish and what language or framing you found

to be most helpful with them?

>> Mercedes: Yes, and I actually kind of fell into it because I had

reached out to Father Lorenzo Labrija

at Try Tank about some other technology

questions, and he invited me to the summit at

that point. And so I used

that to frame as kind of like in a restaurant. They call

it a soft opening that, uh, when

you open for a few days, unofficially, before your

grand opening. And

attending the AI Summit gave me kind of a

soft opening opportunity to say, this is

going on. It's being sponsored by

an Episcopal organization,

and, um, I am going

to learn about it and see

what's out there, uh, and

specifically talking about with my

congregation as

we navigate decline, uh,

what, uh, AI may or may not be

able to help with, uh, either in

cost savings or, uh, new

ideas or wherever it would go. So

that was kind of my opportunity to

initially start the conversation

with the sense that I was going to a

legitimate source to learn about it.

>> Peter: Sure. Yeah. Soft openings are great because Then you can sort of test

the water. I imagine you get a little bit of a

sense of, okay, you know, this is the, uh,

temperature in the room about this. This issue in my

context. And have, uh, some initial

conversations.

>> Mercedes: Yeah.

>> Peter: Um, so about these, uh, initial

conversations and reactions, were there any ones that

surprised you, either in a positive or a negative

way?

>> Mercedes: Yes, actually, when I mentioned it to

Vestry, uh, that I'd like to go on this trip, uh,

and that I asked first,

what do you all know about AI and what

concerns do you have? And they were like,

we're not worried about AI. Why?

Well, what have you heard in the news?

And somebody said, I guess I'd be a little

worried about privacy concerns. And I

said, okay, what about, um,

in the church? And they're like.

To be honest, I think, uh, sometimes

as clergy, we are.

We. We are getting information that we

don't realize that the

congregations don't see as often

as we do. So until

I said, well, what do y'all think about AI

and sermon writing? Because I hear a lot about

that. They were like, I don't

know. I. I guess don't plagiarize.

How does that work? What does it do? And so

really the biggest part of it was there was a

complete lack of knowledge and information.

Ah. Because they just hadn't had a reason to explore it

before.

>> Peter: Sure. Wow. Okay. Yeah.

>> Mercedes: Um, how did your

first chat go?

>> Peter: Oh, man. Um, it was a bit different.

I, uh, definitely experienced some

pushback. And

that's interesting. You know, every context is going to be different.

And I love that you, despite, uh, having, you

know, this openness to it, you, uh, still

went through the whole intentional process, uh, that you

did.

Uh, we talked about, um, but, yeah, so in my own experience,

there are a variety of

opinions and people have a lot of, uh,

ethical and moral questions about using

generative AI, many of which we've talked about on

this podcast already. Um, in a general

sense, uh, there were two

parishioners I can think of who were,

uh, outspoken about it.

One maintained that AI use should be

disclosed whenever it's been used.

And I,

like, want to honor that and also

understand that it's complicated, um,

because, you know, there's. Whenever I'm

using generative AI, it's not just like the

AI creates a finished product on its own. There's always

this back and forth. Um, and so the thing

that has, uh, worked for me is to

say, uh, that, like, I'm maintaining full responsibility for

whatever I say or share or write, whether it's with assistance

from AI or not. And,

you know, I want people to know that they're talking to me

and people, uh, whether I, you know, used an

AI to help me write an email or not, they're. They're

talking to me and constantly giving the

disclaimer. My concern would be that it would be misleading

because people would, you know, if they don't have

familiar familiarity with AI, they

might be led to think that this is the AI talking, not

Peter. Can I really trust this? When in fact it's know,

my job to retain, uh, full

responsibility. And. And we'll talk about that more at a later

question. But.

So that was one. One parishioner and another

parishioner maintained that AI shouldn't be used at all.

I, uh, think for a variety of reasons. And

I've, you know, had this discussion several, uh,

times with various, uh, folks and

I, in this, you know, mostly with people who are

not members of my congregation. Um, I've told this particular

parishioner I'd be glad to talk about it in detail.

And they haven't followed up. So obviously there's more work

to be done there. And I think, uh, you've led a more thorough

process, which is why we're focused primarily on

your experience. But, um, in my own context,

I've talked with my rector and we

decided, uh, to not make a policy,

uh, because really, it's just I'm the one,

uh, in my context who is using generative

AI. And uh, I'm trying to be faithful

and, um, ethical in my youth and

exploring this and sharing obviously what we're learning with others.

And if we were a larger team where

multiple people were going to be. Use it then, yet. Using it then,

yeah, we should have that transparency and clarity. Um,

and since it's just me, I guess I try to maintain that within

myself, uh, and share with others. But, um,

yeah, that's been my experience.

Uh, so, Mercedes, I'm curious.

Um, did you name your

use of AI from the pulpit or

other public settings? And, uh, how did

you navigate that decision?

>> Mercedes: Um, I just said it. I'm

like, I'm going to a conference. I'm going to learn about

AI. And oh, by the way, it kind of does

some cool stuff. Uh, I have played with it. It

writes really lousy sermons, but it does kind of.

It help with revising. And that

tends to be the way I present things.

My, uh. But that. That's also my

style. Um, but I, you know, as I was just thinking

about this, I had a funny thought because

so Last week I sat down and

wrote my sermon,

um, from my

outline. And then I

used the GPT

to suggest uh, slight

revisions just to any cleanup

it saw. And the revisions were so

slight that I, I uh, had the two

of them and I'm going

sentence by sentence so I pulled my 11 year old daughter

in, said Sydney, you read one

while I read the other one. And I tell you what, um,

it was funny because she

understood tone and context

remarkably well. I was surprised

and uh, made probably more suggested

edits than the AI that were good edits.

And so I found myself actually

talking last week more about the fact that my daughter helped

me write my sermon and AI help me revise

it. So, um, but you know

that, that is kind of a thing.

I, I say that in jest, but also in

seriousness. Uh, early on

my husband would review my sermons

for me, uh, before, uh, just to help me

catch things or perspectives that I might

miss. And then uh, some people

I know have writing partners,

uh, that they swap sermons so that they can

help. Uh, I'm part of uh, backstory

preaching, which big shout out to that program,

uh, because I love it. And so we work together

in terms of outlining and ideas,

uh, to keep our sermons tight.

And I, I'm not expected to

disclose all of those

resources on a regular basis.

And so I, you know, somewhere in there is kind of

like really fine tuning what it is

that is uh, making us feel

the need if, if it's the same level of

editing that that AI is

different. Taking full

responsibility for what I put down on the page as

you have mentioned, and being responsible to make sure

that it's not making things up and,

and that it's not. That we're not plagiarizing.

>> Peter: Sure, yeah, yeah. Definitely have to be

mindful of that. Um, and I, you know, in my own

experience I, I preached about

generative AI in like in general

as a sort of the focus of a, of a

sermon. And in that sermon declare, disclose that.

Yeah, I used AI use AI. I use it to help

me write their sermon etc,

and people found that funny. Um,

and yeah, so I think, you

know, I made sure that people know and acknowledge my

own, uh, use. But. And especially you know,

if someone new comes and ask me a question

about how do you know, how do

you uh, come up with your sermons or

how do you use AI et cetera. I'm m. Transparent about

all that, but um, but yeah, just making sure that generally it's

known but I don't feel the need to like say

every Time, or especially like each, you

know, which words came from AI

versus my own brain. Like what? I

don't know how that would even work. Um, but.

Okay, so here's a more pointed question.

Is using AI cheating? How would

you respond?

>> Mercedes: I do not believe so. Uh, I do feel like

I have, uh, had people indirectly

charge me with that, uh, which is an

awkward conversation.

I think it's a evolution of, uh, the

technology. Uh, and as somebody that is

fairly deep in technology, anyway, it

feels like a next, uh, step to me.

A big next step, but it's still there.

And, um, I keep thinking about

the fact that we have

commentaries and writing guides and

thesauria and

um, uh, podcasts that are

talking about ideas. And there's

Grammarly is already there,

helping to correct the text as it

goes.

>> Peter: And, and that's generative AI too, by the way. And

most people don't know that.

>> Mercedes: Right, right. And

so, uh, it

feels to me my use is in

line with how I use all those

other tools. I

am still doing the work. Uh,

I'm still the

priest.

It's my work and prayer at the

intersection of my

context and my congregation

that drives and

guides where the AI is

going. So it's just another

way of resourcing information more

quickly right now. How about

you?

>> Peter: Well, yeah, I just think the Grammarly example is a really great one,

um, because they, uh, yeah, that's a

tool that people often accept as completely

valid, uh, even if they think that generative AI

might not be. And not realizing that that is generative

AI. Similarly, you know that whenever, uh,

you're composing something in an email or

in a word processor these days, there's that

the word processor will try to complete the sentence for

you and you can just press tab to autocomplete. Um,

and you know, that's, that's also generative

AI, and I think people don't realize that. So it's like it's

impossible to, you know, disclose every single time. But.

But yeah, having some sort of generative general

disclosure is helpful. So people know.

>> Mercedes: Wait, wait, before we go on, I want to come back to something

on this one. Um, because again, we tend

to focus on the sermon writing. And I'll be quite

honest, uh, to me, the sermon writing

has become a red herring. It is. I'm barely

using it, uh, for the sermon writing side of

it. Uh, I, you know, using it for

policies and other, uh,

resources, uh, to get things done around

the church. I, uh, know policies are boring.

But when I get. I think

we've said this in a previous episode, but I have to reiterate

it. When we have to sit down to write a

business document for the church, the first

step is almost always to go

out and search for templates and,

or other churches business

document of whatever kind it is, from

bylaws to

policies. You know, all of

this is, uh, we

go borrow somebody else's and we revise

it. Uh, and depending on what it

is, most of the time, if it's a business

document, somebody else wrote it a long time ago

and we just keep revising it now.

Caveat, you know, if somebody has written

a liturgy and we're

taking that in and revising it, then we do

credit that work. But for the, for the

business documents and things like that, I mean, is it

cheating? We've never called it cheating to go search

for all of those sample templates and

other church policies that are publicly

accessible. So it doesn't

feel like cheating to get uh, AI

to do that search and compile that information for

me.

>> Peter: Yeah, so really I just think we need to take full

responsibility for whatever we put

out into the world.

Um, but yeah, uh, there are

a variety of things we're always copying and learning from

and adapting a metaphor that I love that

you know about, but I'll share. Uh, now is

Tesla full self driving mode? Um,

I don't have one myself, but I learned about this when I rode

in a Tesla for the first time about six months ago.

You, you, you have to keep your hands on the

wheel. Uh, but the car will do all the driving

for you. And the person

legally responsible if the car makes a mistake is

the driver. So you know, you're,

you're the driver in

every way of, uh,

interpreting what that means, except you're not physically doing the

motions. The car is doing it for you. And

so if you're doing your job ethically and faithfully,

getting from A to B, whether that's, you know, driving from place to A

to B, or in a work, um,

process or whatever it may be,

um, there it's uh, important

to, you know, keep that mindset of this is my own

responsibility. Uh, how could you know, keeping

still doing your work ethically and

faithfully. Um, and we have this strange

capitalist mindset I think about know, knowledge work, where

we believe it has to be hard for it to be

valuable. But that doesn't really seem healthy to

me.

>> Mercedes: No.

>> Peter: And I'm actually really hopeful that uh, we can maybe break out of

that. Um, and you know, I, I

think that's what this podcast is all about. It's,

uh. We're, uh, trying to figure out how to faithfully, ethically,

and and hopefully healthily engage, uh,

with this technology.

>> Mercedes: Right. I mean, it goes back to the old saying,

we. Why do we reinvent the wheel

if what exists serves our

needs? Uh, and I

think, uh, in a lot of

organizations, you do see that,

um, understanding

that repetition, uh,

of work is okay. It's fine

if it gets the job done.

>> Peter: Sure.

All right. Another pointed question for you.

Does AI written prayer count as

prayer?

>> Mercedes: Well, I have used it,

and, uh. I've

had, like, good, uh, outputs and bad

outputs. Um, all of them have been reviewed by

me, and all of them have been disclosed when

I did use them. And

I find that, uh,

they. It can do

a good job, especially with the Episcopal

collect, since we're so formulaic

anyway.

>> Peter: Right.

>> Mercedes: Um, and to cover topics that,

uh, were thought of after 1979

and the last BCP. Uh,

so I have used it. I

haven't recently. I did actually do

something, uh, a little bit fun.

Uh, actually, it was our Inquirers class

where I had it outline the

class. I had to go in and do a fair number of revisions, but

I asked it to pair up an opening

and closing prayer for each session

from the bcp, and it did a

lousy job of that. And so one of the things we were

doing as we.

>> Peter: I'm curious. We're using chatgpt or it was

chatgpt. Okay. Because. Because I

imagine Ask Kathy would be really good at that.

>> Mercedes: I. I think I did an earlier version

with Ask Kathy, and then I lost track of that one. And

so it was the ChatGPT one. And

so, uh, the funny thing was, so

we just, uh, going into the Inquirers class,

I just said, okay, we're gonna. I need y'all to tell

me what doesn't make sense here, because AI helped

write this, and, uh, I'm kind of curious to

see what your feedback is. And so

we had. We had mismatched page numbers and

some prayers that didn't match the topics.

But it was. It was a way. Yeah, it was a. It was a way of adding a

little bit of fun, uh, to the class as we went

along. How about you?

>> Peter: Well, yeah, I. I guess, uh, when I'm thinking about

prayer, there are

two aspects to it. You know, there's

the, uh. Or I would say any written prayer is

prayed twice. Once by the person

who wrote it and then

again by the people who read it. Ah.

And, you know,

both of those are completely valid. Uh,

but even with something as. As important as

prayer, sometimes in the life of a

rector or parish priest or whatever, um, you

know, you just need a prayer to share with your

congregation for a specific moment. And so the means of getting

there are less important as a spiritual

practice than the end

of having something to pray in the moment with your

congregation. Uh, I sort of think of it a little

bit as a pilgrimage. Is the process of writing this

prayer going to be a pilgrimage for you?

If so, then write it yourself. But if you need

to just have something, um,

then you might not be prayerful in the act

of writing it, um, but you can be prayerful in the act

of reading it. And another

way I think of it again, back to the car metaphor. You know,

the difference of walking versus driving a car. Uh, you're trying

to get from point A to point B. The car will get you there

faster, but sometimes

it's worth it to walk, you know, back to. Again,

pilgrimage. Uh, walking is inherently good. It

gets you from point A to point B. But also it's, um,

uh, a pleasurable, m. Spiritual,

meaningful experience. Often when we choose to do so

intentionally. Um, um. And so, yeah,

discern what, you know, is this a time where I want to walk there

or do I want to drive there? Uh, and I think that's a, uh,

uh, an apt metaphor for using generative AI.

>> Mercedes: I. You know, I just had a

example pop into my head beyond prayer a little bit. Well, I

mean, it's prayer. It's a short liturgy. Several

years ago, I got a call from, uh, the

daughter of a long time. I mean,

lifelong Episcopalian,

because that afternoon she was

transitioning from her home into an

assisted living. And of course, that was a

difficult transition. And so the daughter

was like, it seems like we should have a

little liturgy that we could

do. For the last time, she locks the

door and makes this transition.

And I looked

everywhere and couldn't find,

uh, I found things around it, but not exactly what

we needed. So we ended up with a couple of

prayers. But, you know, I would have

loved in that moment to have been able to

resource, but I had no

time to go find them and write

because to write a liturgy

like that does take, uh, it is a

prayerful process. And

I only had a couple hours, but it

would have meant so much to her

to really be able to walk through,

uh, a liturgy like that in that moment. So

it.

>> Peter: Yeah.

>> Mercedes: Opportunities.

>> Peter: Yes. I used your discernment.

How do you decide how frequently

to disclose AI use? I know we've talked

about this A bit already. So maybe we'll make this one

quick.

>> Mercedes: Yeah, Um, I think for the most part it

has uh, happened with the

changes as I am finding new ways to

use it. Uh, then I'm letting them know

where it might be, have supported my

work. So that, that's mostly

um, so as I said, it's about once a month

that I will mention it in some way or another.

And right now it's a regular topic on our best street

meetings. Uh, so we're

talking about it monthly.

>> Peter: Great. And yeah, um, again I

believe that uh, AI users should take

full responsibility for their output and

um, make general disclosures.

But um, the reason I don't do every time is

because, you know, um, usually I find that most people

think something is either AI made or human

made, when in fact it's not a binary but more of a

spectrum. You know, anything I share with the public isn't going

to be made solely by AI, but rather involves a

creative back and forth between myself and the generative

AI tool. So it's really more like

made with a human augmented by AI.

Um, but I think the public awareness and discourse isn't to

the level where most people understand what that means.

>> Mercedes: And you know, that brings us.

I'm going to jump on the next question about that because

that's where I get the hooked.

Uh, I'm realizing how much

people don't understand

of what can be done with AI. And I

say that because in the last couple of weeks I've sat down and

done some one on ones with people and once they actually

see the process they're like, oh,

will you share that with me? Uh, I want to try that again.

And the big one in our church

was, I've mentioned it

before, but using it to process and

create a summary report of our SWOT analysis from

our, of all the SWOT reports from our

strategic planning. And

once uh, they saw that it looked like a

report and that our strategic planning

consultant recognized and agreed with the

findings, that that just made a huge

difference because I, I

don't know what they're imagining I'm doing with it when they

are concerned. But as soon as you actually

sit down or I sit down and say this is what I do,

they're like, well, that makes sense that there's nothing

wrong with that. And so that, that's been

something, you know, uh, trying to

navigate, uh, how people are

feeling about it. Uh, is, is

interesting when I don't realize or I

don't know exactly what their knowledge

level is. Um, but Uh,

I am trying to be. Well, I am very open to the

concerns and keeping track of it and

listening. As, uh, I mentioned earlier, we

have an open rectors forum, and

so everybody could express. We had really good discussion around

that. And, you know, they brought up some

concerns that I felt like, needed to be

addressed sooner rather than later, like the

protection of human creatives and making sure they're

compensated. We talked about the environmental

impact, as we have in previous,

uh, conversations. Uh, we, uh,

have a few episodes here. Yep. And then, uh, the

impact on youth. But what I heard

clearly and is, uh, being

reflected in our responsible use policy

is the concern about the privacy

of, uh, personal information. So

that's not an area that we will be

exploring. And so that

is, I think it's just important to listen

and to be open to the fact that,

uh, they may have read something they probably have that

I haven't had a chance to get to yet. But I just

don't know sometimes if they have actually sat down and

played with it either. Well,

well.

>> Peter: So, yeah, our next question was, and you've talked a

bit about this, uh, so how do you build trust with your parishioners

around something as unfamiliar and potentially controversial

as AI? And for me, you know, the

answer, uh, boiled down to its

essence is just, uh, be transparent and

invite conversation. And, you know,

you, uh, respond pastorally to wherever that

conversation leads.

>> Mercedes: So I'm going to give, like, a not quite pastoral

example. Well, it's a. It's a friend of mine who's an

artist, uh, said, I tried AI and

it just didn't do what I wanted it to do. I said, well, what did you want it to

do? Uh, and y'all will probably have to look

this up. But she said, I needed it to produce a list

of nouns and verbs and, uh,

descriptions or adjectives as prompts for

a particular art project. And, uh,

I didn't like what it produced. And I said, what

kind of art project was it? She

said, it's called an Exquisite Corpse.

So I opened up ChatGPT and

said, Describe an exquisite

corpse project, uh, to me.

And it did. And

then I said, create the prompts for an

exquisite. And it immediately did

that. Uh, and it was

perfect. That was all we had to do was produce

the context, provide the context. And then she

was like, well, that's exactly what I wanted it to do. So

that again, is that we've said it over and over again.

Provide the context first, and then it

will, you know, provide some interesting information.

>> Peter: Sure, yeah.

Um, so have you Ever

had to adjust course based on feedback

from your congregation?

>> Mercedes: I would say not specifically,

uh,

on any particular timeline, because it's kind of just evolving

as it goes. But I always

feel like, uh, in change management

in any organization, but especially a church,

part of the process is listening

and then giving time for ideas

to spread within the congregation and for people to discuss and

process and before you assess

when to take a next step. So that's just kind of part of integrated

and how we change things in churches.

>> Peter: Yeah. M. And I've shared some things about this

already, but I think the only, uh, further thing I want to

share is, you know, we're in this period of trial

and error. It's a new technology, and people are figuring out, uh, how

to make it, use how m. How to make it useful and

how to use it well. And I think the

main adjustments I've had to make have just been how

I've learned to use these tools better and fix

their mist and, you know, take better responsibility

for them as a user of this

technology. Um, I want to make sure that

I, uh, you know, I'm understanding better that how

I can take full responsibility for the output that I'm

putting out there.

So how does your theology of the Holy Spirit shape your

understanding, understanding of collaboration with AI

tools?

>> Mercedes: Uh, I. I'm going to lean into a saying I heard

a few years ago that I love and,

uh, I share often now, which is I want

to be open to being surprised by the Holy

Spirit, and I

associate the Holy Spirit with

change and discernment.

And so, uh, given

my experience with technology, again, it

kind of feels like that the Holy Spirit sometimes might throw

things at me technology wise. Just

like, uh, sometimes it's,

uh, a cat lost in a parking lot that my husband told

me not to pick up.

>> Peter: There's a story there for sure. Um,

yeah, so we've talked about discernment, especially in

episode two. Uh, as long as we're using these tools

faithfully and ethically, the Spirit works through us

regardless of what tools we're using. Um, so,

yeah, I would just say keep discerning. Keep using these

tools well, and the Spirit will be there, whether you're using

an AI tool or social media

algorithms or word processors

or text messages or pencil and paper. Whatever tools you

use, the Spirit can work through us as we use

them.

So what would you say, Mercedes, to a church

leader who feels curious about A.I.

but, uh, is afraid to bring it up with their vestry or

congregation?

>> Mercedes: Well, you know, there's the standard,

uh, approach of church management in terms of

starting with key lay leaders,

uh, to have one on

one conversations, uh, and get, and take

the temperature of your organization before

you do a presentation. And I think, uh,

that's always an important part of change management.

But I think after my experience over the

last few weeks,

um, I would be ready,

uh, with some examples

because again, every time

I have actually shown an example

of what I provide

and what AI responds and how

we shape something together, or even

just here's the context, here's the question,

and, oh, look, here's some information

that has changed minds very

quickly. So,

uh, you know, but a lot of it is going to

be, uh, don't take it

personally if folks are criticizing AI, they're

criticizing AI, not us. Um,

and, uh, also continue

to research and be open and

honest about acknowledging the

risks, uh, and the concerns

and uh, having a willingness

to adapt the strategy or a

policy to meet those risks and concerns.

>> Peter: Sure, yeah. And I would just add, you

know, if you're thinking about bringing this up with your

congregation, play around with it, uh, get a solid

understanding of how generative AI can be useful

and think deeply about its ethical and faithful

use. Um, of course that's what we're trying to do here on this

podcast. So keep listening. And

uh, it's really, you know, it is a contentious

topic, and it's a bit too much of a contentious

topic to bring up without some

preparation. And that involves talking to your

congregation in one on ones, but also having a

deeper understanding of how the technology actually works.

So when you can, when you feel that you can stand on

somewhat solid ground, whatever that looks like in your

context, and still listen deeply to the

concerns of your parishioners, whatever they may have,

that's when you can engage in a helpful

congregation conversation with your

congregation.

>> Mercedes: Absolutely. Because, uh, again,

when we said this many times, it is

ultimately about what it's doing, uh,

to help us with human, uh,

relationships, not to undermine them

or to bypass them. So,

uh, we're not taking that part of change

out of the process. We still need

to, uh, talk to humans and work with

humans and listen and be, uh, and be

attentive to their concerns.

>> Peter: All right, so shall we wrap it up with the baptismal

covenant?

>> Mercedes: Absolutely. I'll take a little turn here on the question

asking.

>> Peter: Okay.

>> Mercedes: All right. What, uh, do you think about

continuing in the apostles teaching and fellowship and in

the breaking of the bread and in the prayers?

>> Peter: Well, I guess I just think that helping, um,

your community navigate this change that we're all

going through, uh, as generative AI

transforms the world around us, also helps them

throughout the rest of their lives and

living, uh, into the modern world. And how great could that be

if churches are a place that serve, um, their

communities in, uh, navigating

this transition. So there's

a lot of teaching that goes on there, but also a,

ah, teaching about how to use this faithfully and

well. Any disruption will

lead to pain. Um, and,

and that's a, a hard fact of life.

And so how can we minimize pain? How can

we care for those who are experiencing that

pain? Um, you know, uh, that's, that's

what the church is there for.

>> Mercedes: Absolutely. I think I would just add

to that that, uh,

we, we, we, we say all the time

that, uh, worship is not necessarily, necessarily

what happens in the nave of the

sanctuary, but how it prepares us to go out into

the world to serve our ministry. And

we can't control the pace of change in

society. It is getting, uh, more

complex every day. And

I hate to discard a

potential technology that could help

us better engage, uh, in

ministry and evangelism and

connecting with people where they are.

Okay, next up, will you persevere in resisting

evil and whenever you fall into sin, repent and return

to the Lord?

>> Peter: Yeah, I mean, uh, this is a big shift we're all going

through, so you have to navigate it transparently and

pastorally. And, uh, we're all going to make

mistakes. I've made mistakes. I've, you

know, in. Not in any big ways, but,

um, there are times where I know I've

failed, um, to check, you know, everything it put out and

realized there was a mistake in email or something.

And, and taking responsibility for that,

taking a pastoral approach to whatever the

consequences might be. And

yeah, um, I think transparency

and care for others is how we can, um, best

resist evil in this case.

>> Mercedes: Absolutely. And then, you know, we've said before it's an

evolving technology, so we recognize that

more information is coming out every day. And

sometimes we're going to find ourselves in a place where what

we're doing might not have been the best idea. So the best

we can do, uh, is when we know better,

do better. Okay.

Uh, will you proclaim by word and example the good news

of God in Christ?

>> Peter: Yeah. And we've talked about how AI can be

a tool that helps us serve that

purpose. But in regards to, you know,

understanding it, ah, theologically and communally, like, we

have to be really clear that, you know, AI will not save

us. Ah, it is, it is a tool. Uh,

there Is no known tool that can.

Will save us from who we are as human

beings. But AI can help us to do God's

work in the world. And you know, uh, God gives us

tools all the time. And I'm excited to see, see and

continue learning about what the Holy Spirit is up to and the

creation of new tools all the time.

>> Mercedes: Absolutely. Uh, I've always found that my call

is at the intersection of technology and

ministry. And in particular right

now, um, I see opportunity with AI

for improving the things that we

do more in the quote unquote, running the

church side of,

um, side of things. Better

administration, better communications,

new, um, ways to evangelize. I, uh, just think there's some

great opportunities there. Will you

strive for justice and

peace? Did I skip one? I did.

Will you seek and serve Christ in all persons, loving your neighbor as

yourself? How can I miss the greatest

commandment?

>> Peter: Right. But I mean, it is great and it's are

relatively simple. I think transparency is care.

And you know, um, having

transparency, having pastoral care for folks who

are navigating this transition with us, um, it

really boils down to that. And then. Yeah, for that last

one, um, do you have more things to say? Well, for either of

those.

>> Mercedes: Ah, well, I mean, if you're not willing to be authentic

about saying that you're doing it, then you might not want to be doing

it. That, you know, that's the transparency.

>> Peter: Yeah, sure. Yeah.

>> Mercedes: Oh. Will you, Will you strive for justice and peace among

all people and respect the dignity of every human

being?

>> Peter: Yeah. I don't think I have anything more to say than all the things we've

already said there. What about you?

>> Mercedes: I would only add that, uh, as

with all change, uh, there

is going to be concerns and

anxiety and um. I was actually

talking to somebody earlier today and uh, we were

reflecting on the fact that

that comes from a place of love. People

get, uh, anxious about change because they love

their church, they love the traditions, they love the worship,

they love the community. And

uh, I think it's important for us just to remember

and reframe that

we're all working towards community, uh,

here.

>> Peter: Right. I'll actually add one more thing that I just thought of

that I should make more clear. I talked about how

disruption brings pain. And

there, you know, any, any big

technological disruption is going to create the

loss of jobs. And we've seen that with social

media and the way that, you know, um,

communications, uh, institutions like

journalism have. Have been so, uh,

heavily impacted by that. You know, we don't know the full

replication repercussions of what generative AI is going

to have. But artists are definitely feeling the

pain. And I think there is a.

There's a very important role in the church of, you know,

caring for people who are experiencing that pain. And I

just want to underline, uh, that thing that I

already said before. Yeah.

>> Mercedes: When it comes to justice and peace, I think. Yeah. That. That's.

That's really important. Thank you.

>> Peter: Yeah.

>> Mercedes: Okay, well, we've come to the end here, so

here's the takeaway. Um, if you're going to work

with AI, we recommend starting to communicate

early and often. Uh, and be

transparent with your congregation. Uh, if I

can borrow an old phrase. Ah. From church

communications, uh, figure out how to say it at

least three times in three different ways.

Uh, it is helpful. Uh, but if you did find

this helpful, uh, we hope that you will

share it and leave a review. And don't forget to

subscribe to aichurch.

>> Peter: Toolkit as, uh, always some

listener homework.

Think about your own organization, where you work.

Do you need to have some transparent conversations with leaders in

your congregation about using generative AI?

And could you use this opportunity to support

them in their own journey of learning to use

generative AI? So reflect on all of that.

>> Mercedes: All right, thank you for joining us for episode six

of the AI Church Toolkit podcast. We are

grateful to the Try Tank Research Institute for

making this podcast possible.

>> Peter: And remember, AI is a tool, but our mission

remains rooted in faith and community. See

you next time.

>> Mercedes: Sa.